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Mats Sundin's retirement announcement doesn't come as much of a surprise. He showed last year that even as a part time player, he didn't have it any more. The Canucks will carry on without him (read: They'll be knocked out in the first couple rounds of the playoffs again.) But this post isn't about Sundin's failed attempt to be a role player in an attempted Stanley Cup run; it's about his legacy in Toronto, the place he played the bulk of his career and could never win over the fans despite being the greatest Leaf in forty years. The place that, if management has any sense, they would be honouring his #13 right now.
Sundin was acquired by the Maple Leafs from the Quebec Nordiques after the 1993-94 season in a trade that saw team captain (and fan favourite) Wendel Clark go the other way. Clark would find his way back to Toronto for two more stints. But it was Sundin who stuck around for the next 14 years (13 seasons). It was during that time that Sundin rewrote the entire Leafs' record book. At the end of his tenure in Toronto, Sundin was the team's all-time leader in points, goals, power-play goals, game winning goals, playoff game winning goals and over-time winning goals. The last of these he shares with Jaromir Jagr for most in NHL history. In addition, Sundin was the team's scoring leader in 12 of his 13 years and only once did he fail to score 30 goals over the span of a full season (explanation: Sundin had 23 goals in 47 games during the lockout shortened 1994-95 season).
Early on the team saw the potential for leadership in the Swede and in prior to the 1997-98, Sundin was named Captain becoming the first non-Canadian bestowed with this honour. Mats did not disappoint. Over the next few years, Sundin captained teams made the playoffs in final six seasons prior to the lockout. Twice in that span (1999 and 2002) Sundin's Leaf teams made the conference championships - a feat that equaled the 1978, 1993 and 94 editions of the Buds. Sundin's team were consistent and finished as well as ANY Leafs team after 1967. In the '99 post-season, Sundin played arguably his best hockey posting eight goals and eight assists, and two game winning goals before being stopped by the Dominick Hasek led Buffalo Sabres. In the second round series against Pittsburgh he posted three goals and four assists, and famously laid out Jaromir Jagr.
In 2002 Sundin was injured for most of the playoffs but returned for the the tail end of the Carolina series. While that playoff run was notable for the play of Alexander Mogilny and Gary Roberts, my greatest memory of that entire playoff was seeing Sundin score the equalizer in game six to force overtime and give the Leafs one more chance to extend the series. Seeing the game in person, I've never in my life heard a louder roar at the ACC.
But here's my big argument for this man and for why he deserves immediate honour. Who was on those "spectacular" teams? Steve Thomas, a player who enjoyed two very good years near the end of his career largely was never all-star; Jonas Hoglund, a career journey-man who was able to pull off 20 goals seasons playing on Sundin's wing; Sergei Berezin, a player who showed a lot of potential after scoring 37 goals in 1999 only to never reach these heights again; Gary Roberts, a former 50 goal scorer who never managed to score 30 goals as a Leaf, and I say this spite of his 2002 playoff performance. Roberts never before or never again had a similar performance. The only exception was Alexander Mogilny who, while oft-injured, was most talented winger Sundin ever played with in Toronto. He produced on Sudin's wing highlighted by his team leading 33 goal, 79 point 2002-03 season as well as a team leading eight goals in 2002 playoffs. Other "notable" Leafs from this era were Owen Nolan, Igor Korolev, Dmitri Khristich and Freddy Modin. And of course the one player that could have made a difference, Steve Sullivan, was insanely jettisoned for the aforementioned Khristich.
In all Sundin led the team in all categories during his tenure despite playing with medicore talent. Darryl Sittler had Lanny MacDonald; Doug Gilmour had Dave Andreychuk and Wendel Clark. Sundin had next no one yet still did so much. Do the right thing MLSE. Honour that number 13 sweater.
Please note that I've deliberately omitted Sundin's decision not to waive his no-trade clause at the end of the 2008 season. For all the rhetoric and bullshit on Sundin, it comes down to this: Don't give players no-trade clauses end then whine when, heaven forbid, they actually use them.
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Dave, Dave, Dave...Where do I begin (Other than you need to use spellcheck!)
ReplyDeleteSundin most certainly does not deserve to have his number raised immediately to the rafters, maybe in time. First off, the Jagr hit is laughable if you are trying to contrast Sundin to other more well loved leafs, aka WENDEL CLARK Go to youtube and you will see 3 Wendel highlights for every 1 of Sundin's (including the odd goal or two!) Secondly, who cares who Sundin had to play with? Why make excuses for Sundin when he clearly displayed minimal heart throughout his career while other notable Leafs wore it on their sleaves? If regular season numbers and no-heart are so important for you, then I suggest you buy a Kovalev jersey and go cheer for the Senators. Finally, to keep this short as I could go for another 10 pages, I agree with you on the no-trade point, except for the fact that he didn't retire afterwards! What a load of bullshit that was that he "believed it was important to be their from the beginning and not midseason". Sundin was a secondrate captain who happened to put up a lot of points and make a shitload of money. Maybe in 5-6 years raise a banner - remember, as an Avs fan this should be extremely obvious - only players like JOE SAKIC get their numbers honoured immediately.
RY
Go to youtube and type in Wendel Clark. You'll get 433 hits. Then type in Mats Sundin. You'll get 1070. Which is about right since Sundin was about twice the player that Clark was. I'll grant that Sundin wasn't a fighter, but Wendel Clark wasn't much of a passer. And look back at his numbers. It's pretty telling that when he played with a real playmaker (Gilmour, Courtnall, Sundin in 1996) he produced. Sundin did without anyone on his wing for years.
ReplyDeleteAs for the no heart comment, this is a player who broke his wrist in game one of the 2002 Leafs-Isles series (still was able to score a goal), assisted on both goals in the 2-0 win in game two and played in game three before being told by the team that he couldn't play again until it was healed.
Joe Sakic was a great player on a number of great teams. Mats Sundin was a great player on a number of mediocre teams that somehow succeeded in the playoffs. I can't help that he was traded for your beloved Wendel Clark.
Three thoughts;
ReplyDeleteA) Sundin is indeed the greatest Leaf, and his number should be honoured immediately. There is no criterium for decisions like these, only emotions, tradition and respect. If another Leaf player suited up wearing #13 this season or next, it would just feel wrong, thus, honour the sweater.
2) When Sundin scored potted that tying goal I could have sworn I heard you cheer from the bottom of your belly just like a real Leafs fan! It was as loud at that moment as it was deathly quiet when Scott Stevens smoked Kevyn Adams in Game 5.
III) Khristich was acquired from the Bruins for a draft pick. Sullivan was waived and claimed by Chicago and himself admitted he would have never become the player he did if he had stayed on the Leafs and never gotten the opportunity he did to become a team leader on the Hawks.
You mean this goal Pete?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sMeC90XQwY
When they pan the crowd, you can almost find us in the melee.
As for the Sullivan comment, you're technically correct (the best kind of correct). I've always thought of it a clear move to dump Sullivan for Khristich. Or in more detail, the Leafs could have waived anyone to make room for Khristich. I believe that by cutting Sullivan, MLSE made a specific choice: We want him, not you and it's personal.
Pat Quinn never did like Sullivan, did he? Too bad. He could have been the true winger that Sundin needed. Yet another reason that I dislike Quinn. But that's for another post.
I'll give you Hoglund and Renberg, but lets not forget some of the Swedish weasel's (not holmstrolm this time, the traitor Mats) other linemates: Clark, Thomas, Mogilny, Roberts etc were all pretty decent wingers. And I don't buy the argument that Sundin needed someone to play with his whole career. He was a goal scorer, not a playmaker so I doubt his point totals would have been much different with another scoring winger. Secondly, I don't dislike Sundin because of the Clark trade (seeing as they got Clark back and he had a 30 goal season on Sundin's wing). I dislike Sundin because he has half the heart and passion that Clark had as a Leaf. If point totals are so important to determining whether a player embodied what it is to be legendary on his team, than you are commenting on the wrong team. (Go cheer for the oilers) Part of being a Leaf includes a certain passion, toughness and heart that Sundin sadly has forfeited by embarassing himself on the Canucks and his Stanley Cup run retarded comments.
ReplyDeleteAnd lets be honest, would you rather watch a shitty sundin goal on youtube or Clark demolish ______ (insert anyone who played in the NHL from 1985-1999)?
Cmon Dave, you can't actually believe what you've wrote in this article - you're just doing it to start an online brawl!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_sm2mHeJwI
ReplyDeleteWatch this, especially the crowd reaction and his interview at the end to see the real captain...
Sundin was a FAR more complete player than Wendel Clark. That's not even a question. While Clark could indeed lay a guy out, and was without a doubt the toughest, most exciting Leaf, Sundin was a great leader, and that goes beyond crushing guys and getting in fights. Sundin could lay a guy out, wrestle the puck out from behind the net and score. And as for your comment about Sundin being a goal scorer and not a playmaker, was Clark either of those things?? No. He was a tough guy, and a good leader. Sundin made the players around him better, and Clark never did.
ReplyDeleteThat's right, Dave... THAT goal. I always try to see if different camera angles get us in the shot. I think you can almost see me jumping up and down, but you can't be sure..
Honestly Ryan, I would rather watch anyone of Mats Sundin's 79 Game winning goals with the Leafs. Or maybe one of his seven game winning goals in playoffs. Both more than any Leafs since the NHL has been keeping the stat. As you know full well, leadership is also about leading by example on the ice. Scoring important goals when they matter.
ReplyDeletePete couldn't have said it any better. Wendel might have inspired the fans, but Sundin inspired his teammates. To quote Glenn Healey from Thursday Night "The greatest thing about all leaders is they don't talk about it, they do it. You look at his game-winning goals, his overtime goals, he's the guy who, if the game was on his stick he did it. He got it done."
Honestly, I think it's telling that both Clark and Sundin's most famous goals were scored to force overtime in a big playoff game, only for the Leafs to lose. Okay that one was below the belt.
@Dave: Yeah, 79 Sundin slapshots from the top of the circle, extremely exciting...about as exciting as watching a draft. Which you do. Including after the second round. Which probably explains why you like Sundin more than Clark. Didn't you use to be a Kings fan? :)
ReplyDelete@Peter: I disagree on the complete player argument. Think about it: Sundin scored timely goals, got a bunch of assists and stuck his ass in people's faces while holding the puck in the corner. He also showed emotion and passion by throwing his stick into the crowd...(eyes rolling). Wendel scored timely goals, made hits, dug in the corners over the corpse of the guy he just hit, fought (he was half the size of sundin) and never threw his stick in the crowd. Different players for sure, but Sundin was no more complete than Wendel. And if you ask real leaf fans who they're favourite player was, you'll 17, 93 and 4 (ok not Cory Cross) more than you'll hear 13.
Oh Dave, before I forget, you forgot to update your twitter on the rest of the Favre vs Packers game last night... :)
ReplyDeleteSorry, That's for the Leafs losing in the playoffs cheapshot!
I was busy writing the first comment to update twitter anymore. I felt that the Packers' play deserved a full blog post. God that game made me angry.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, everybody here is wrong. Clark was the Leafs saviour. The timing of acquiring a player exactly like clark could not have come at a better time for Leaf fans. He rejuvinated the passion in all Leaf fans, turned the team from a laughing stock to a team to be feared. That being said, Mats Sundin is one of the greatest Leafs ever, but the greatest Leaf of all time is not a two pony race. Timing is everything in hockey, and the time is not right to honour the great Sundin just yet. The focus of leaf fans is still in fantasyland, their hopes are approaching the desperate. MLSE will wait until confidence has returned to Leaf nation and despair has been replaced with some justified arrogance. The memory of Sundin leaving the Leafs for a shit west coast team is still too near, leaving many fans divided on where they should stand in the Sundin fan camp. MLSE will honour no.13 when they put a respectable team on the ice, any other move would guarantee Mats doesn't get the ovation he deserves.
ReplyDeleteps. If Clark sees what you wrote about him, he'll make like you're a North Star and turn your face to mush.
pps. bwahahahahahahahahaha. packers...ahahahahaha
First, Clark wasn't what I would call a saviour. Harold Ballard's death coupled with Steve Stavros' purchase of the team from his estate saved the franchise. Stavros hired Cliff Fletcher and ripped off the Flames for Doug Gilmour. Clark was there before and after Ballard's death.
ReplyDeleteSecond, you're right. It's not a two horse race for greatest Leaf of all time. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably rank Frank Mavolich first, Charlie Conacher second and John Bower third. Why? They all won Stanley Cups. In the Big M's case, he was the best player of a team that won four times in six years and three in a row.
At the end of the day, hockey is a zero-sum game. Either you've won the Stanley Cup or you haven't. Teams that have won multiple cups like Toronto have to be judged on whether or not they continue to win. Since the Leafs haven't won a cup (or even made the final) since 1967, we have to look at what these players did in spite of winning a Cup. Once or twice in a generation, they reached the conference finals ('78, '93, '94, '99, '02).
I stand by what I said earlier:
"In all Sundin led the team in all categories during his tenure despite playing with medicore talent. Darryl Sittler had Lanny MacDonald; Doug Gilmour had Dave Andreychuk and Wendel Clark. Sundin had next no one yet still did so much."
Clark saved a generation of Leaf fans from becoming totally disinterested in their crap play through the late '80s. His hard hitting passionate play inspired teamates as well as Leaf nation. He brought hope to a franchise heading in the wrong direction.
ReplyDeleteDoug Gilmour did not have Dave Andreychuk, Dave Andreychuk was lucky enough to have Dougie and Wendel.
I guess Marcel Dionne isn't really that good, never having lifted a Stanley Cup. And Dan Bylsma is a proven great coach. The accomplishments of one person do not reflect the success of a team. Teams/Organizations win cups, never individuals. I don't know if thif debate really exists here, but I think I heard Bob Mckenzie say recently (referring to Mats) that a Stanley Cup should be a requirement for the hall of fame. Bob's a moron.
I don't think that a Stanley Cup is HOF requirement. There will always be great players playing on the wrong team and at the wrong time. Cam Neely, Adam Oates and Dale Hawerchuk come to mind. My point was more directed at the Leafs as a franchise. As a franchise, it has won 13 Stanley Cups. The great players on those team must be honoured first before we honour great players on team that didn't win.
ReplyDeleteI find your example of Marcel Dionne weird as the Kings have never won the Cup. I was trying to players from the same franchise that had won it all. As for Dionne, he was great player who played on a mediocre team but in an era that goal scoring was more the norm than the exception (six 50+ goal seasons but never led the league in goals; 8 100+ point seasons and only won the Art Ross once).
Dionne is one of three all time top 20 scorers who didn't win a Cup and four of the top 25. These are lists that doesn't include Bobby Orr, Jean Beliveau or Maurice Richard though I think it's safe to consider them three of 10 greatest players of all time.
What I'm driving at is that great players are expected to deliver championships, especially when the team that they play on has a history of winning titles.
Well then Dave, by the logic of that last comment, that players without cups shouldn't be honoured by HOF or otherwise immediately, then perhaps Sundin's number shouldn't be honoured right now and should have to wait 10 years before that happpens (a la Wendel and Dougie, each of whom is > Mats) :)
ReplyDeleteRyan, read what I wrote again. I'm in favour of putting players without Cups in the HOF.
ReplyDelete"I don't think that a Stanley Cup is HOF requirement. There will always be great players playing on the wrong team and at the wrong time."
What I was referring to is the standard that players need to be held to when their fore-bearers have won Stanley Cups. Great players of Cup Winning teams must be considered better than great players on teams that didn't.
Since none of Sundin, Gilmour or Clark ever won a Cup in Toronto, they all must be ranked below the great players (not all players, just the great players) on the teams that did.
No Dave, read what I wrote again. I'm saying that because of your point, Sundin in no way deserves to be honoured IMMEDIATELY, like you say, by the Leafs as that honour is deserving of Stanley Cup Winners. On a team with a history as rich as the Leafs, if you honoured Sundin right away, it would take away from previous players accomplishments, meaning that in due time they should raise his number, not now like your original point in the post. As for the HOF, I agree with you that a cup is not a requirement and somewhat that winners should have precedence over non-winners. Depends on the player really.
ReplyDeleteOh, and in case you didn't know:
ReplyDeleteWendel Clark's tears cure cancer. Too bad he's never cried.